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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: 9/11 brought out the best in us as human beings. |
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9/11 brought out the best in us as human beings.
People were genuinely helping each other and showed compassion towards each other. People who aren?t even religious were going to church to give support to those who died.
People were setting aside their differences. Race was no longer an issue, religion was no longer an issue.
And then 3 months later it was back to business as usual.
Those three months changed me forever. I just wish everyone knew how to be that way without a tragedy.
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jen
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I have said something pretty similar to this myself lately. It's really sad that the feeling of unity dispersed after such a short time. Its despicable that
it took something as catastrophic as the Twin Towers and the Pentagon getting hit to bring people together. I wish it was like that all of the time.
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" The feeble tremble before opinion, the foolish defy it, the wise judge it, the skillful direct it." Jeanne-Marie Roland
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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It gave me a glimpse of how wonderful living in this country can be.
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jen
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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True that man. I just hate that it took something like 9/11 to bring it out. I hope that it will not take something that huge to bring it out in the US people again. I just don't see such a caring and friendly United States anywhere upon our horizon.
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" The feeble tremble before opinion, the foolish defy it, the wise judge it, the skillful direct it." Jeanne-Marie Roland
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Nice sentiments, but this was predictable.
I don't think it was even 3 months - I think it was less than that. I think it was shortly after that where 2 reactions emerged -
a. get the guys who did this - and that should be the end of it. A proportional response.
b. time to physical and change the middle east. Big Picture
The united factor was fear - if you think back in the days and weeks after 9/11 - we werent thinking "if" we get hit by another attack - it was "when".
I would wager the farm that 95% of this country would have never thought that we would go 6 years without an attack on US soil - we thought 6 weeks at the most.
We are in a sad state of affairs when 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys in this battle. 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys for removing hussein from power, for going on offense, and for pressuring Iran to give up their nuclear ambitions. We are doomed in this battle against Islamic extremism - we don't have the will.
The goal in Iraq was to remove a dangerous dictator from power - like we did with Milosovich. The goal was to change the middle east for the better - give these people a chance to choose freedom and peace. 1/2 this country never got the "big picture" outlook .
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| redstaterebel wrote: | Nice sentiments, but this was predictable.
I don't think it was even 3 months - I think it was less than that. I think it was shortly after that where 2 reactions emerged -
a. get the guys who did this - and that should be the end of it. A proportional response.
b. time to physical and change the middle east. Big Picture
The united factor was fear - if you think back in the days and weeks after 9/11 - we werent thinking "if" we get hit by another attack - it was "when".
I would wager the farm that 95% of this country would have never thought that we would go 6 years without an attack on US soil - we thought 6 weeks at the most.
We are in a sad state of affairs when 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys in this battle. 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys for removing hussein from power, for going on offense, and for pressuring Iran to give up their nuclear ambitions. We are doomed in this battle against Islamic extremism - we don't have the will.
The goal in Iraq was to remove a dangerous dictator from power - like we did with Milosovich. The goal was to change the middle east for the better - give these people a chance to choose freedom and peace. 1/2 this country never got the "big picture" outlook . |
And the other problem is--there's no way to make the middle east better. The beliefs by many over there are too strong. I think if we would have just stuck with plan "a", things would be going much better right now.
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | redstaterebel wrote: | Nice sentiments, but this was predictable.
I don't think it was even 3 months - I think it was less than that. I think it was shortly after that where 2 reactions emerged -
a. get the guys who did this - and that should be the end of it. A proportional response.
b. time to physical and change the middle east. Big Picture
The united factor was fear - if you think back in the days and weeks after 9/11 - we werent thinking "if" we get hit by another attack - it was "when".
I would wager the farm that 95% of this country would have never thought that we would go 6 years without an attack on US soil - we thought 6 weeks at the most.
We are in a sad state of affairs when 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys in this battle. 1/2 this country thinks we are the bad guys for removing hussein from power, for going on offense, and for pressuring Iran to give up their nuclear ambitions. We are doomed in this battle against Islamic extremism - we don't have the will.
The goal in Iraq was to remove a dangerous dictator from power - like we did with Milosovich. The goal was to change the middle east for the better - give these people a chance to choose freedom and peace. 1/2 this country never got the "big picture" outlook . |
And the other problem is--there's no way to make the middle east better. The beliefs by many over there are too strong. I think if we would have just stuck with plan "a", things would be going much better right now. |
What was Plan A ?
I see Plan A as our weak ass response to terrorism and islamic extremism for 30+ years - starting with the Iran Hostage Crisis - all the way through the USS Cole bombing in 2000. What was our response?
Answer: squat.
How'd that work out for us?
Kizz - it was time to get tough with these people.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I was going by your lists of A and B. I guess I confused things by referring to it as a plan:
| Quote: | a. get the guys who did this - and that should be the end of it. A proportional response.
b. time to physical and change the middle east. Big Picture |
Plan a. Get the guys who did this - and that should be the end of it. A proportional response.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| redstaterebel wrote: |
What was Plan A ?
I see Plan A as our weak ass response to terrorism and islamic extremism for 30+ years - starting with the Iran Hostage Crisis - all the way through the USS Cole bombing in 2000. What was our response?
Answer: squat.
How'd that work out for us?
Kizz - it was time to get tough with these people. |
Get tough, yes, but we can't "change the middle east" like plan B suggests. We're not going to change their beliefs. All we can do is go after the specific groups that were responsible.
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think we are getting the guys who commit terrorism - I just think it goes further than that.
Wiping out Al Qaeda would be great - but that would not be the end of it. There would be more.
Proportional responses haven't worked. They have brought more terrorism.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think a good answer is?
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | What do you think a good answer is? |
I was on board with the Bush Doctorine - until we saw that the American people don't have the will for it.
The doctorine being that we won't distinguish between terrorists and hostile nations who do/could assist them.
Note to Taliban, Hussein, Iran, Syria, Libya etc: don't f*ck with us. You woke the sleeping giant.
However, Pres Bush overestimated the will of the american people - Bin Laden was right. We are the paper tiger - we aren't cut out for a long
war which we will take casualties. We will go home. Sad. I would love to get a message to Bin Laden et al - expect a disproportional response if you attack us again.
Kill 1,000 americans, we retaliate 10 fold.
Of course that ship has sailed - they watch the news and know better. With 50% of the country not wanting to fight this war, we must withdraw back onto defense. Lock down the borders, wire tap, and track every muslim in this country who we suspect to have terrorists ties. When the next attack comes (and it will) - we will have only ourselves to blame - perhaps at that time we will get back to the big picture solution - change the middle east. Give the people freedom from the husseins, mulahs, religous police, and corrupt monarchs robbing the oil riches of the countries. We cant do that now. We need to punt and go on defense.
I
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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If that was the case, why wouldn't nukes be on the table as an answer?
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | If that was the case, why wouldn't nukes be on the table as an answer? |
Because we are responsible. Please note the difference between us and islamic extremists.
We could nuke bahgdad, or damascus, or tehran, or Riyhad - but we would kill millions of innocent people int he process. We don't do that.
We did this with Japan - which was a real war against another nation - not a sector of their population. We surely would have used them against the Soviets - had push came to shove - but again, this was a nation who would have been firing them at us as well.
This is a very different kind of war.
Nukes are good for the MAD theory - mutually assured destruction - as a deterrent. Terrorists don't care about that. I think Tehran and damascus do though.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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So, as far as what we should do in the future--do you not have an answer EITHER. I certainly have no answer.
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