Employment Non-Discrimination Act

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

This came out of Reply 18

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 413

"Daddy" won't listen to that tripe. It won't do techno any good to cry to daddy, of this I am sure. Anyway, I'm not about to try and get sucked into all of this (gotta play some Team Fortress 2), but in grazing the posts I saw that techno pointed out how "not even the Bible tries to support the idea that God is never wrong". I'm just here to call you out on that with fact. Fact: You don't know what you are talking about. Find me one scripture that even remotely alludes to that in support of your claim. Don't bother, it's not there.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject:

You tell 'em Debateman! Smile

EDIT: That was meant to before HackFest's post.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject:

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

I see Kizzume is too busy patting his moderators on the back to do his job and prevent outright lies. Thanks. Bye. I won't tolerate that.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I think that the Nin quote is fitting...

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are..."

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1124

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

You can call those things lies if you want, but for me they are truths.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

There is another issue to be dealt with here. There is an insinuation in Tech's post that Kizz and I are in some sort of conspiracy against him or at the very least Kizz is providing preferential treatment to me.

First of all, that is an accusation of a man who has lost an argument and out of spite wants to create problems.

Second, there is no evidence to support this slanderous assumption.

Third, through the scope of the Nin quote, we can see that Tech is using his personal feelings/ideas to make this judgment statement which indicates one of two things. A) Tech would blindly back a moderator if he thought the moderator was correct or B) Tech would lie about a situation to make himself appear more noble or professional. Perhaps some self examination would be fitting instead of projecting these issues onto others.

Another thing, I'm only a moderator for the Gay and Lesbian issues area. This is in Deep Cleansing, two diffreent areas. I have zero authority here other than as a poster and what my skill/ intellect will allow.
? Last Edit: Nov 15, 2007, 12:13pm by debateman ?

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1124

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 413

I think it is extremely evident that frustration and embarrassment have caused the accusations to fly. If homeboy wants to threaten leaving, I say: Be Gone! If we as a community let even one of us start playing mind games and trying to manipulate other members to where anything is changed, especially change based on threats of leaving, then the purity of the site is lost forever, and that's a hard thing to find. I don't want to see this forum bend to that.

*EDIT
LOL, I just realized that that post wasn't the last from Technocrat, so it was just an empty threat. Well that's good, I like entertainment. Keep it alive Brainy!

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject:

So, Hackfest--what is it that this antidiscrimination policy does specifically that really gets your goat? Does it really have an effect on churches themselves, or is it just something that relates to stores that sell things like Christian literature? If we're talking about stores--unless it's something that would disallow the employer from using knowledge of the Bible as a factor in hiring someone, what is the problem you have with this--OR--is it just the issue with people not being able to discriminate in general?

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 413

I don't see how it encroaches on the physical "Church". I think that's 10-20 years away still. The Act is an absolute breach of the 1st Amendment. The already accepted religion of Christianity would be told that they have to allow what they believe is wrong according to their beliefs. This is "prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Christianity was around when the 1st amendment was written, so it goes without saying that it was at least considered at the time of the writing. It's not even like Christianity is Matrixism (yes, based on the movie) and is trying to use the 1st amendment (which Matrixism certainly has the right to) to try to bring new things under protection. Someone in this thread already covered the fact that someone would certainly not be the most qualified person for the job based on being gay. This is true, but how long until someone uses this Act to try and force a less qualified person to get the job? It'd be just like affirmative action, which is horrible. This is an entirely different matter than Technocrat has tried to make it out to be by comparing it to not hiring black people because they are black. Being black doesn't affect how well you can do your job. Being gay in that line of work most certainly would. There are convictions and strength that come from someone who is firm in the beliefs of Christianity that another person wouldn't feel. If you ran a monastery and I wanted to be hired to lead the devotions every day, but I sell drugs to kids, you shouldn't have to hire me. People can interpret that according to the Christian belief system, hiring a practicing homosexual is wrong. The government is not allowed to disturb that in any way. The problem really lies in how people interpret homosexuality. Gay people say that they were born that way for the most part, and religion in general usually says that it is a sin. Another way to look at it is that sincs the fall of man* the world has been cursed. People are born with down syndrome, and people are born gay. Either way, it's a struggle to deal with from the viewpoint of Christianity, but really, it's irrelevant to the Act. A religion cannot be encroached upon by the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_Man#From_the_Book_of_Genesis
? Last Edit: Nov 23, 2007, 6:40pm by Hackfest ?