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technocrat
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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A sociopath is someone with anti-social personality disorder. It's characterized by incessant lying/dishonesty, a desire to "win" over others, as well as a lack of empathy. They can't experience fundamental relationships. A sociopath isn't necessarily violent or a murderer, and I don't think the average soldier is a sociopath. There probably are some. I wouldn't make a clinical diagnosis from a video, but they are probably candidates if they can torture small animals and get a laugh out of it.
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Hiedi
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | Hiedi wrote: | | Quote: | posted by debateman
The brainwashing is sadly necessary. We have to take the good with the bad. |
If the US government wants a military that will follow every fucked-up order without any question, then you are probably right about that. However, there are repercussions to that type of dreadful brainwashing. The rumor is they are not just killing innocent puppies and cats in Iraq.
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But obviously this is what the government wants. It makes the military easier to control and makes the desires of the government easier to realize. |
I agree; this is what the government wants, but is it morally/ethically right to brainwash people to kill on command without asking "why"? Where does the killing stop? Obviously, the military has a difficult time controlling the on/off switch for some of these soldiers.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | Hiedi wrote: | | Quote: | posted by debateman
The brainwashing is sadly necessary. We have to take the good with the bad. |
If the US government wants a military that will follow every fucked-up order without any question, then you are probably right about that. However, there are repercussions to that type of dreadful brainwashing. The rumor is they are not just killing innocent puppies and cats in Iraq.
video |
But obviously this is what the government wants. It makes the military easier to control and makes the desires of the government easier to realize. |
Yes, it is what the government wants, and I find that to be despicable. It's obvious that destruction is the desired result, not anything that could actually help the situation. If we're trying to "win over" the Iraqi people, this kind of methodology is not going to be what does it.
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debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Location: New Mexico
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is--are they really protecting us when they're making so many enemies out of their actions?
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | The thing is--are they really protecting us when they're making so many enemies out of their actions? |
You know my opinion on this. It is no. I disagree that the military needs to be a total mindless killing machine. We also provide RELIEF all over the world with our military, and I'd prefer if we did MORE of that and LESS killing, personally.
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debateman
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Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | The thing is--are they really protecting us when they're making so many enemies out of their actions? |
Killing puppies is the least of our problems though that's what you guys want to focus on. If all they were doing were drowning cats and killing puppies I'd be less concerned.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | Kizzume wrote: | | The thing is--are they really protecting us when they're making so many enemies out of their actions? |
Killing puppies is the least of our problems though that's what you guys want to focus on. If all they were doing were drowning cats and killing puppies I'd be less concerned. |
Killing puppies isn't what the actual problem is--it's the torture of prisoners and the treatment of civilians that's the problem. The people who are able to kill animals with glee and joy are the same types that would be willing to do the same thing to people they think are "less than human".
That's why the focus is on these kinds of people.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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That's right. Sociopaths harm animals first, but they don't exclusively harm animals. Besides, I DO think killing puppies and cats is a problem.
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Hiedi
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | We are however dependent on the brainwashing as it's the brainwashing the makes the individuals so effective at protecting us. |
But the US military is engaged in an unjustifiable war in Iraq. This war in not about self-defense. America's military is preoccupied while the US is extremely vulnerable within its own borders. I am really starting to wonder if this war is all about "protecting" the affluent lifestyle of the Americans. Without the brainwashing, more military members would resist and refuse to fight.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Good point Hiedi. Very good point.
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debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Hiedi wrote: | | debateman wrote: | | We are however dependent on the brainwashing as it's the brainwashing the makes the individuals so effective at protecting us. |
But the US military is engaged in an unjustifiable war in Iraq. This war in not about self-defense. America's military is preoccupied while the US is extremely vulnerable within its own borders. I am really starting to wonder if this war is all about "protecting" the affluent lifestyle of the Americans. Without the brainwashing, more military members would resist and refuse to fight. |
But it's not the job of the military to question orders. We don't want a military that will question orders. Do the job and get it done. The problem is the leadership giving the orders to the military. We're moaning about a result instead of the cause.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | Hiedi wrote: | | debateman wrote: | | We are however dependent on the brainwashing as it's the brainwashing the makes the individuals so effective at protecting us. |
But the US military is engaged in an unjustifiable war in Iraq. This war in not about self-defense. America's military is preoccupied while the US is extremely vulnerable within its own borders. I am really starting to wonder if this war is all about "protecting" the affluent lifestyle of the Americans. Without the brainwashing, more military members would resist and refuse to fight. |
But it's not the job of the military to question orders. We don't want a military that will question orders. Do the job and get it done. The problem is the leadership giving the orders to the military. We're moaning about a result instead of the cause. |
I'll give you that one. At least to an extent. I still think it's a real problem to try and share a society with millions of people trained to kill and not question authority-- who get off on killing animals-- but I will agree that the leadership is very flawed.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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I can see both sides to this, and they're very conflicting.
On one side, the military NEEDS to have people who do most things without question, but on the other side, if people are willing to do ANYTHING without question, and our government has them doing TRULY horrible things, it seems really sad that there wouldn't be any objection within the people having to carry out those orders.
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Hiedi
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | Hiedi wrote: | | debateman wrote: | | We are however dependent on the brainwashing as it's the brainwashing the makes the individuals so effective at protecting us. |
But the US military is engaged in an unjustifiable war in Iraq. This war in not about self-defense. America's military is preoccupied while the US is extremely vulnerable within its own borders. I am really starting to wonder if this war is all about "protecting" the affluent lifestyle of the Americans. Without the brainwashing, more military members would resist and refuse to fight. |
But it's not the job of the military to question orders. We don't want a military that will question orders. Do the job and get it done. The problem is the leadership giving the orders to the military. We're moaning about a result instead of the cause. |
Perhaps it is time for the policy to change. Someone needs to question orders when a particular government has been waging preemptive war on other countries around the world for quite sometime now. Honestly, I wonder how much longer the US will be able to continue as a nation at this rate. An eye-opening documentary "Why We Fight", I need to watch that one again.
military industrial complex
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