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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: H.R. 1955: Thought Crime Prevention Bill of 2007 |
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Okay, so the bill was actually entitled: H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955
How do y'all feel about this "lovely" thing that passed? I think there may have been a discussion about it, but I can't find it under a search for the name of the bill, so I might be re-posting.
Why did the democrats support it? Why did EITHER party support it?
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thought Crime Prevention?! I didn't ascertain all that from it. I think that Al Franken would be proud of that statement. Anyway, the bill leans towards bigger and more government, which is never good. I truly want LESS government, and it seems to me that in general; Democrats want more and more government, while Republicans want less and less. Surely, there is a happy medium somewhere, but I tend to lean more towards the less government approach, and almost to a Libertarian point of view, but not quite.
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I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thought Crime Prevention?! I didn't ascertain all that from it. I think that Al Franken would be proud of that statement. Anyway, the bill leans towards bigger and more government, which is never good. I truly want LESS government, and it seems to me that in general; Democrats want more and more government, while Republicans want less and less. Surely, there is a happy medium somewhere, but I tend to lean more towards the less government approach, and almost to a Libertarian point of view, but not quite. |
Oddly enough, the term "thought crime" is used more by the right wing than the left wing....
The thing is--this bill makes discussing hatred towards the government in public something that one can be arrested for and thrown in jail without trial. I'd call that "thought crime legislation". So far, luckily it hasn't been used in that manner, but it's quite scary if you ask me because of the potential of what it could be used for.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I would consider your viewpoint the extremity of it though, much like your viewpoint on the internet thing that Ess may have changed. And, much like that viewpoint, probably not something that will come to fruition. I'm not saying it's impossible, but definitely nowhere near probable. As far as the phrase being said more on the right than the left, that doesn't apply to me because no one I listen to says that unless they're talking about liberals trying to impose socialism in some form.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1124
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thought Crime Prevention?! I didn't ascertain all that from it. I think that Al Franken would be proud of that statement. Anyway, the bill leans towards bigger and more government, which is never good. I truly want LESS government, and it seems to me that in general; Democrats want more and more government, while Republicans want less and less. Surely, there is a happy medium somewhere, but I tend to lean more towards the less government approach, and almost to a Libertarian point of view, but not quite. |
That is how it should be. But alas, that is not how it actually is.
The government has become HUGE under president Bush. There is more government control now than ever. We owe more money in government spending now than ever.
It is quickly becoming an old legend that Democrats are for spending more and republicans for spending less in our ever disastrous state of war on terror.
And alas, Bush is actually a total socialist, not a capitalist. You won't know what I mean at first. But study the details of how the "free market" works in Iraq; it doesn't. Research how the US installed government over there is functioning in terms of fiscal responsibility; there is none.
Bush is the biggest socialist there is, he just isn't willing to spend that money on stuff that helps people (Health care, education, etc.) because he doesn't actually value people. He simply values big government, and big corporations. None of us little guys.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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This is partially accurate. Bush is not the Republican party though, as is obvious by how many republicans don't approve of him.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1124
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is partially accurate. Bush is not the Republican party though, as is obvious by how many republicans don't approve of him. |
I'll give you that benefit of the doubt, however, since he is the commander and chief, and a second term Republican, he does represent them whether they want it or not.
And unfortunately, a lot of republicans still say he is a great president. Mitt Romney, another socialist in capitalist clothing, also says that Bush is a great president. Meh.
It is probably really confusing to read my opinion on things because I don't fall into an ordinary "liberal" or "conservative" category. I would actually more likely classify myself as a liberalist, which is not a liberal at all, but is speaking more in terms of what Adam Smith, our founding father in capitalism, would have wanted. He very specifically specified that SMALL business, LOCALIZED, with FAIR TRADE, is what fuels and grows the economy.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would consider your viewpoint the extremity of it though, much like your viewpoint on the internet thing that Ess may have changed. And, much like that viewpoint, probably not something that will come to fruition. I'm not saying it's impossible, but definitely nowhere near probable. As far as the phrase being said more on the right than the left, that doesn't apply to me because no one I listen to says that unless they're talking about liberals trying to impose socialism in some form. |
You're totally right that it is taking an extreme view of it, but it IS a possibility. Because of this bill, this possibility has been opened. I know it's DAMN doubtful that this will be abused like I mentioned, but I just think opening up the possibility of it is a horrible idea.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with you there. Not a step in the right direction at all. What's next? The feds rush in during a church service and arrest a pastor on hate crimes when he tells the congregation that homosexuality is a sin?
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have to agree with you there. Not a step in the right direction at all. What's next? The feds rush in during a church service and arrest a pastor on hate crimes when he tells the congregation that homosexuality is a sin? |
Yeah, crap like that, or maybe people that preach against big corporations might get targeted because they're verbally attacking an American institution....
This bill opens up the possibility of some really awful things. The possibility.
If those things did start to happen, one can be assured that this government will start to fall apart pretty quickly.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Kizzume, One can be assured I'd be living in another country, and I get the feeling a lot of people would be going with me. jq, I completely disagree that Bush is a "total socialist" and not a capitalist. I would like to see some evidence of that claim. Yeah, gov. spending is HUGE, but without the war, it would be nil. That's really just another way of saying that the current circumstance dictates a truth that "Republicans spend more than Democrats" as a more permanent way of thinking, which is ludicrous. And this:
"Bush is the biggest socialist there is, he just isn't willing to spend that money on stuff that helps people (Health care, education, etc.) because he doesn't actually value people. He simply values big government, and big corporations. None of us little guys."
Sounds like Alec Baldwin or Rosie O'Donnell to me. I'd like facts backing that up, and not just blanket statements. The thing that TRULY bothers me most is blanket statements like this one, that seem to be fueled by emotion more than anything. This is turning into a bigger subject, but it's also partly why I believe FAR- left Liberalism is a personality and not a set of beliefs.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1124
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Kizzume, One can be assured I'd be living in another country, and I get the feeling a lot of people would be going with me. jq, I completely disagree that Bush is a "total socialist" and not a capitalist. I would like to see some evidence of that claim. Yeah, gov. spending is HUGE, but without the war, it would be nil. That's really just another way of saying that the current circumstance dictates a truth that "Republicans spend more than Democrats" as a more permanent way of thinking, which is ludicrous. And this:
"Bush is the biggest socialist there is, he just isn't willing to spend that money on stuff that helps people (Health care, education, etc.) because he doesn't actually value people. He simply values big government, and big corporations. None of us little guys."
Sounds like Alec Baldwin or Rosie O'Donnell to me. I'd like facts backing that up, and not just blanket statements. The thing that TRULY bothers me most is blanket statements like this one, that seem to be fueled by emotion more than anything. This is turning into a bigger subject, but it's also partly why I believe FAR- left Liberalism is a personality and not a set of beliefs. |
Government spending wouldn't be big without Iraq? Sort of beside the point since we ARE in Iraq, don't you think? That isn't permanent enough? We will probably be there for 20 years! We will have an embassy there forever!
Besides, his spending is still ridiculous in other fields too; see hurricane katrina for further details. And I am not saying that we shouldn't help the people victimized by katrina, I am simply saying that we should be fiscally intelligent about the process, which bush isn't.
You must not be aware of the huge amount of government subsidies on farming under Bush, either.
How about Nasa. Are you aware of how much money has gone into outer space ESPECIALLY since bush took office?
How about corporate welfare, are you aware of how much it has grown under bush?
Here is a little quote from Bill Curry on Bush and his pork barrel spending. I especially like this part: Corporate socialism-- Bush is its Lenin. LOL
| Quote: | | As for socialism, we have it now. Government pays the lion's share of health care costs and gets less for it every year because it can't tame the insurance industrial complex. Bush cries 'free market' but his pork fest of a Medicare drug bill stifled competition and guaranteed industry profits. It's called corporate socialism and Bush is its Lenin. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-curry/george-bush-secret-socia_b_67943.html
Also, a little more on health care
| Quote: | | We pay twice what any other country pays for overhead, as much as 30 cents of every health care dollar. "Socialist" Canada is second at about 16 cents. Until voters find out that Aetna charges 20 cents to do what Medicare does for a nickel and that federal law guarantees their right to go right on doing it, real change will elude us. |
Conclusion: Bush is a socialist pig. If you want more details on how this is so, I just gave you a fat list of things to google.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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But there are so many things that are fascist mixed into it that it a "socialist" doesn't really seem to be a description of him. A pig, maybe, but socialist just isn't the right word.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 413
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thank God I'm not the only one who thought that was WAY OFF. I just thought I wouldn't repond because I can't/won't compete with Left-wing smear site dribble. Many of them call Bush a socialist/communist/Nazi/etc.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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I just think this bill sets a horrible precedent. I think Bush is pushing for an authoritarian government. It's not left or right wing--it's simply authoritarian.
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