 |
|
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| debateman wrote: | | So yeah, I've made the executive decision that Kizz is hot. Just thought I would let everyone know... |
 <blush>
I certainly like my appearance now better than I ever have. I've actually wanted this look since I can remember. 
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1124
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What held you back before?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My living situations. Basically being told that I was crap unless I looked like a "nice guy".
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| debateman wrote: | | So yeah, I've made the executive decision that Kizz is hot. Just thought I would let everyone know... |
Well, here it goes. I'd like to start this post by saying, I feel like out of all of the forums I frequent; THIS is the one forum where I could possibly say this and not get instantly flamed. I just have to understand more, so I'm going to present this. Hopefully, no one is offended, I'm just trying to get educated here, and Kizzume knows me, hopefully he'll vouch for me if someone accuses me of homophobia. Here we go:
I just don't get it. The being attracted to the same sex. I don't understand it at all. I have known plenty of gay men that say, "That's a really pretty girl". I could never say that honestly about another man. I've said, and even today mind you, that a guy looked good, but in the context that he looked a way I would like to look. Is the gay attraction the same as the straight attraction? Does a gay man look at another man and say, "Those hips are hot!", or "I could stare into those eyes all day."? Pop culture presents gayness as an almost PURELY lust driven condition. Ever watch Will & Grace? The Jack character reminds me of a 13 year old boy in junior high school. I know that this is not reflective of the real relationships people have, but pop culture seems to only push that angle. Anyway, maybe someone could clear this up for me a bit. When I see a gay girl say "Oh, she is smoking hot", I get that. That's where I come from. It seems more natural than when two guys are physical. Probably because I see girls in somewhat the same way as a gay girl might. Is that how it is with gay men? Do they see other guys like straight girls see them? I'm a pretty tolerant guy, so I know I'm not grossed out by 2 guys who are into eachother, it just SEEMS on some level like a little kid trying to put a grilled cheese sandwich into a VCR. Does that make any sense? Thanks
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hackfest wrote: | | debateman wrote: | | So yeah, I've made the executive decision that Kizz is hot. Just thought I would let everyone know... |
Well, here it goes. I'd like to start this post by saying, I feel like out of all of the forums I frequent; THIS is the one forum where I could possibly say this and not get instantly flamed. I just have to understand more, so I'm going to present this. Hopefully, no one is offended, I'm just trying to get educated here, and Kizzume knows me, hopefully he'll vouch for me if someone accuses me of homophobia. Here we go:
I just don't get it. The being attracted to the same sex. I don't understand it at all. |
I don't get it either. It is what it is. Instead of spending years answering a question that cannot be answered I've simply accepted the fact and moved along...
| Quote: | | I have known plenty of gay men that say, "That's a really pretty girl". |
It's a matter of aesthetics. We can find the female aesthetically pleasing without finding her sexually stimulating.
| Quote: | | I could never say that honestly about another man. I've said, and even today mind you, that a guy looked good, but in the context that he looked a way I would like to look. |
But you are saying that about the guy. By admitting that you want to look like him in a certain fashion means that you find him or parts of him to be aesthetically pleasing. This doesn't mean that you want him sexually. It doesn't even mean that you have to want to be like him. It simply means that there is something about him that is pleasing to look at. Again, this doesn't mean sexually, it's a matter of aesthetics.
| Quote: | | Is the gay attraction the same as the straight attraction? Does a gay man look at another man and say, "Those hips are hot!", or "I could stare into those eyes all day."? |
Yes, those are methods. There are also purely intellectual methods. Most of us I believe select from a combination of the two. We find someone aesthetically and intellectually/emotionally stimulating.[/quote]
| Quote: | | Pop culture presents gayness as an almost PURELY lust driven condition. |
Of course it does. Pop culture presents everything as PURELY lust driven. Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Britteny Spears, need I go on?
| Quote: | | Ever watch Will & Grace? |
It makes me laugh.
| Quote: | | The Jack character reminds me of a 13 year old boy in junior high school. I know that this is not reflective of the real relationships people have, but pop culture seems to only push that angle. |
Pop culture is about taking things to their most absurd conclusion.
| Quote: | | Anyway, maybe someone could clear this up for me a bit. When I see a gay girl say "Oh, she is smoking hot", I get that. That's where I come from. It seems more natural than when two guys are physical. Probably because I see girls in somewhat the same way as a gay girl might. Is that how it is with gay men? Do they see other guys like straight girls see them? I'm a pretty tolerant guy, so I know I'm not grossed out by 2 guys who are into eachother, it just SEEMS on some level like a little kid trying to put a grilled cheese sandwich into a VCR. Does that make any sense? Thanks |
Yes and no. I understand that you personally don't understand it, but that doesn't mean it isn't natural. It just isn't common. Attraction is attraction. It is what it is. You cannot help who you are attracted to. Gay guys and Straight girls have attraction in common. Frequently they are attracted to the same guys.
_________________
www.politicalwrinkles.com
www.kizzumeforum.com
www.politicalfever.org
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey, thanks for a somewhat informative answer. That really helps. I feel that I understand more now. I didn't mean to imply that it was unnatural simply because I didn't get it, just that my not understanding any aspect of it makes it elusive and therefore unnatural, if that makes any sense. Nothing to relate to to make it natural. Pop culture is very damaging to ANY misunderstood element or way of life because people unfortunately take it at face value far more than would make sense. Not everyone of course, certainly not to the larger extent like the typical moron, which really probably isn't represented on such forums. Too busy watching "Laguna Beach".
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hackfest wrote: | | debateman wrote: | | So yeah, I've made the executive decision that Kizz is hot. Just thought I would let everyone know... |
Well, here it goes. I'd like to start this post by saying, I feel like out of all of the forums I frequent; THIS is the one forum where I could possibly say this and not get instantly flamed. I just have to understand more, so I'm going to present this. Hopefully, no one is offended, I'm just trying to get educated here, and Kizzume knows me, hopefully he'll vouch for me if someone accuses me of homophobia. Here we go:
I just don't get it. The being attracted to the same sex. I don't understand it at all. I have known plenty of gay men that say, "That's a really pretty girl". I could never say that honestly about another man. I've said, and even today mind you, that a guy looked good, but in the context that he looked a way I would like to look. Is the gay attraction the same as the straight attraction? Does a gay man look at another man and say, "Those hips are hot!", or "I could stare into those eyes all day."? Pop culture presents gayness as an almost PURELY lust driven condition. Ever watch Will & Grace? The Jack character reminds me of a 13 year old boy in junior high school. I know that this is not reflective of the real relationships people have, but pop culture seems to only push that angle. Anyway, maybe someone could clear this up for me a bit. When I see a gay girl say "Oh, she is smoking hot", I get that. That's where I come from. It seems more natural than when two guys are physical. Probably because I see girls in somewhat the same way as a gay girl might. Is that how it is with gay men? Do they see other guys like straight girls see them? I'm a pretty tolerant guy, so I know I'm not grossed out by 2 guys who are into eachother, it just SEEMS on some level like a little kid trying to put a grilled cheese sandwich into a VCR. Does that make any sense? Thanks |
For me, it might be a little bit different. I'm not absolutely certain that my sexuality is "set in stone", primarily because of how many variables went into the way I was raised. From sunday school teaching that for guys to want to look at naked women is wrong and even giving tests on it, to not being allowed to learn about anatomy and generally being overprotected and sheltered as a kid, to not having a father, to being raised primarily by an abusive grandmother in which I started to assume that all women have part of her in them, to being molested at a church for almost a year when I was 8--the list goes on.
But when I see a woman and thing "pretty" or "beautiful", I end up thinking about her outfit, her makeup-applying techniques, whether she has a figure that cannot be mistaken as anything but a woman's figure (you know, NOT the women who have a boyish figure), how straight her teeth are, how she smiles (whether she does the oversmile where you can see the bottom teeth or whether she just shows her top teeth or whether she shows her teeth at all), all those kinds of elements. There are also some women who, without makeup, still look like a porcelain doll. I notice a lot of things about women, but I never "pop a boner" from looking at a woman (except in an embarrassing moment when I was playing strip poker when I lived in Dallas TX with some friends, and when the heavier woman took off her top I kept having to look away--the most confusing point in my sexuality I've ever had--it never happened once after that one time, so I don't really know what it meant--I don't know whether it was because of the whole exhibitionist aspect to the whole scene or not--it didn't help that the size of it really pissed off the guy sitting across from me who refused to remove his shorts when he completely lost).
So I don't know.
Is it a "lust driven condition"? Well, sexual attraction I would consider lust, but I guess the word "condition" makes it confusing to me. Would you being attracted to a woman make heterosexuality a "lust driven condition" for you? There's definitely a difference between lust and love, a HUGE difference, and it's possible to love someone you're not sexually attracted to, and it's more than possible to be sexually attracted to someone you can't stand, so I guess no matter how I look at it, I don't understand that specific question of "is it a lust driven condition".
I wish I could choose who I was attracted to, that would sure make life easier, but it's not something I can choose consciously, just as I am sure that
When you somewhat talked about straight men not admiring other men--let's take sports for instance, especially wrestling. So much of it is about admiring physiques to some degree, but even more so it's about watching guys do things that either take a lot of physical endurance, or watching guys do something that requires a heavy body/muscular/big-or-fat construction. Guys do it a lot, but they can't talk about it because people might assume the person is gay if they did.
I would put the attractions that gay men have to other men as being very similar to the way that straight women have attractions to men.
I don't know if I just confused things more or not.
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| debateman wrote: | | Well you just proved that sexuality isn't a monolith of bricks... It sways... ebbs and flows. |
That is true. But for people who don't understand or fully understand the concept of man on man attraction, it certainly makes sexuality a much more complex issue, which it IS, it's definitely not a cut and dry issue as many people try to make it out to be (not that anyone here has tried to make it cut and dry, but a LOT of people certainly do try to make it that way--I hate it when people say "well if you feel THIS way, you're gay and if you feel THAT way, you're straight", you know, the people who think bisexuality is false, and unfortunately, I find a lot more gay people to take that "bisexuality is false" opinion than straight people).
I just hope there has at least been some clarity given to Hackfest from what I've said and you have said AS WELL as bring up more questions and concepts (and unfortunately, confusion) about other aspects to this subject.
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The condition comment was in regard to how pop culture makes it look, not how it is for someone. The Jack character on Will and Grace is made out to seem like a drug attic when it comes to sex. Like a condition that controls every aspect of his life.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hackfest wrote: | | The condition comment was in regard to how pop culture makes it look, not how it is for someone. The Jack character on Will and Grace is made out to seem like a drug attic when it comes to sex. Like a condition that controls every aspect of his life. |
Gotcha. And that's definitely what media likes to push gay people out as, but it's so untrue for most gay people.
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I think that media representation of most things is bunk. Religion, sexuality, morals, music, style, and so on.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2832
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Getting this mohawk I think was the best decision I've made in years besides quitting weed.
People come up to me out-of-the-blue just to start a conversation. I've been quite shy in person for so much of my life, and the way I've been treated has really started to transform my mindset and opinion of myself. I've gained so much self-confidence from this. It has been nothing short of AMAZING. I'm not scared to talk to people anymore. I walk around with my head facing forward instead of looking down most of the time.
I didn't think something like a haircut could do something like this. It shouldn't be this way--appearance SHOULDN'T make that much of a difference, but it CERTAINLY does.
I've never been hit on by so many people in my life! When I've went to the mall, or bars or clubs--I've been hit on by SO many women lately. That's just not something I would have expected--AT ALL. If I ever want to "try the other side", I don't think I'd have much problem now.
My mother works at AAFES at the base exchange at McChord AFB, and sometimes she offers to take me on base to do shopping. I expected to get really hateful looks from the military personnel--I thought for SURE I would be HATED for my appearance. Nope--it wasn't that way at all. The same thing was occurring there as at other places--people just come up to me and start conversations.
I've wanted to do this for SO many years. I wish I would have done this a LONG time ago. Again, I think getting this mohawk was the best decision I've made in years (besides quitting weed).
_________________
Meow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
| |
|
