Hate crimes have went up

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: Hate crimes have went up

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1045904

It seems that hate crimes are going up. More definitely needs to be done about hate crimes.

I saw this on APF and then I saw it as a fresh story when I went back to google news, so I had to post it here too.

This is somewhat a disturbing piece of news.

redstaterebel · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 128

This needs to stop -

We need more crime prevention measures - rather than dealing with crime after the fact.

That said - I'm against hate crime legislation. Legislating illegal thought scares me.

If I assault a person - I should be punished. Does it matter the color of his skin or his sexual orientation?
If I assault a white guy do I get less jail time? straight guy?

Not just no, but NO, NO, NO, NO.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

How does one differentiate between a bar fight and a racially motivated beat-down? Should those things be treated the same?

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

hate crimes should be punished more because they intend to terrorize an entire group of people. It's an attack against an entire group and community and is more dangerous and wide-spread in its effect. It's a serious problem that requires added disincentive for prohibition. If one guy gets beaten and killed because he had sex with his wife, the nature of the problem is different if one guy gets beaten because he's black in a neighbourhood of blacks. One's more serious, dangerous to society. If a guy got beaten because he's white, that would also be a serious hate crime.
? Last Edit: Nov 26, 2007, 1:16am by technocrat ?

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

I think I agree. I think there needs to be SOME sort of differentiation between violent acts and what their motivation is.

redstaterebel · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 128

Kizz - the bar fight - it makes no difference what the motive is. Assault is Assault.

I agree with both you and Techno - racially/sexual orientation motivated crimes feel worse to us - but a government punishing thought - no matter how much we disagree with it - is
just plain wrong. How far of a leap is it for the gov't to outlaw communist thought, liberal thought, conservative thought.

How far of a leap is it to outlaw the next KKK march somewhere?

As much as we like to deny the Klan its permit, or punish those who are not as enlightened in terms or sexuality or race - the criminalzing of thought is a slippery slope and too much of a risk.

To prove a hate crime, the prosecutor would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what the accused was thinking. Its punishing thought rather than the act.

Florida has the death penalty - thats the punishment for murder. Does it really matter if it was racially motivated or not. Equality doctorines tells us that it doesn't. Equal protection doctorines tells us it doesn't matter. If the ultimate goal is equality - we need to stop treating people differently.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject:

Well, in a bar fight, often both (or several of) the parties involved were both pulling punches. In a beating, it's usually only one person pulling the punches. So--I guess you have a point. Man--it's so hard to look at that way, but it's really PROBABLY the only right way to look at it..... UGH!!

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject:

Let's say a bar fight happens. If someone yells a racist word during the fight, like in the middle of it and the police came, couldn't that fight be treated as a hate crime? Would it be fair? If it STARTED with racist words, that's one thing, but if it happened in the middle of the fight, should they have the right to call it a hate crime?