World Health Organization study on second hand smoke

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

What is really bizarre is that smoking is so popular in China: it's actually encouraged by the government. It's a really epidemic problem there. China is literally going through an industrial-revolution, much like the West did in the 18th and 19th century. They hail it as 'good' for you for all kinds of ailments. It's nonsense.

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

So, smoking cuts years off your life. Just how much "life" does it subtract? Yeah, I know the 12 to 14 year estimate given here in the U.S.. But why do all but one of the top 15 countries in the world in life expectancy smoke more than the U.S.?

Rank Country Life expectancy Percentage of male population that smokes
1. Iceland 76.6 (1994) 31.0 (1994)
2. Japan 76.5 (1994) 59.0 (1994)
3. Costa Rica 75.9 (1994) 35.0 (1988)
4. Israel 75.9 (1994) 45.0 (1990)
5. Sweden 75.5 (1994) 22.0 (1994)
6. Greece 75.2 (1994) 46.0 (1994)
7. Switzerland 74.8 (1994) 36.0 (1992)
8. Netherlands 74.7 (1994) 36.0 (1994)
9. Canada 74.7 (1994) 31.0 (1991)
10. Cuba 74.7 (1994) 49.3 (1990)
11. Australia 74.5 (1994) 29.0 (1993)
12. Spain 74.5 (1994) 48.0 (1993)
13. Malta 74.5 (1994) 40.0 (1992)
14. Italy 74.4 (1994) 38.0 (1994)
15. France 74.3 (1994) 40.0 (1993)
USA 72.6 (1994) 28.1 (1991)

Mark

Kizzume · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject:

So, I take it that the first number is the average life expectancy in general, and the second number is the average life expectancy of people who smoke. If not, can you explain the numbers a little more?

Iceland 76 (1994)

okay, that makes sense, but:

31 (1994)

what is that number? If that's the number for people who smoke, then what in the world are you trying to argue? You're sabotaging your own argument if that's what the statistics really mean.

When you've known people in their 30's through their 60's dealing with lung cancer, it makes it a lot harder to go with what you're saying. I am VERY biased, and I TRY to look at this subject subjectively, but I'm not very good at it because of the experiences of people that I have known, so just take what I'm saying with that taken in consideration. I know it's biased, and I'm sorry about that. I wish I could make myself unbiased, but it's really hard.

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

That chart is difficult to read. What was the source? Do you have a link to it?

It has many different dates as well, and they don't match up to the dates in other countries. Also, the date of X percent of smokers doesn't match up to the date of life expectancy given. It's also taking the average life span.

Averages can be manipulated/skewed by outliers. Several factors might influence average life span.

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject:

It was from this, which is from http://www.lcolby.com/pdf/book.pdf which is also here http://www.lcolby.com/addendum2.htm which leads back to here: http://www.kidon.com/smoke/index.html which I can't find any of those statistics on. Still looking....

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject:

Ah--finally I found the place it came from: http://www.kidon.com/smoke/percentages2.htm

It's from a pro-smoking website that tries to glamorize smoking and make it look wonderful.

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

Colour me unsurprised. They probably just made the shit up or distorted the statistics, no doubt. Pro-smoking websites are wont to do that. Manipulating statistics is what they do. They are looking at averages, and they mention nothing bout the differences in medical care, treatment, lifestyle otherwise, etc (that is if it's true at all anyway). They are attempting to pain smoking as "non-deadly."

As I mentioned, hardly any of the dates of life span vs smoking prevalence match, much less across all of those countries, and averages can be distorted by outliers. The average salary in some areas can be manipulated by some high and low figures, but that doesn't mean most or even all actually have a given salary. Perhaps something similar is the case. Perhaps as well the bad of the cig smoke is taking down lifespans, but other things are brining it up: also, perhaps the population that isn't smoking, their treatment and lifestyle is impacting the number.

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject:

Yeah, those stats just seem like hogwash. I hope he can bring up some other stats for this. He may be able to find something, but I sure couldn't find anything other than from pro-cigarettes sites that don't even tell their sources.

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:

Yes, I understand it, as I looked into the source and have 2 links to the original stats that gave more explanation, but it fails to mention all the other factors that go with it--it ONLY mentions cigarettes in relation to the lifespan. If you could get a similar chart that shows some of the other factors, and if you could get a chart from somewhere other than a "cigarettes are good for you" site, I'll be glad to give it more weight.

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject:

Okay---fine.... hold a bit and I'll go get the statistics myself. I have to get them from excel files or a pdf.

I will be back in a bit with another post....