Im almost ready to quit. This really sucks.

Kizzume · Last edited by Kizzume on Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:50 am; edited 5 times in total

When it was two members of the band telling me that they don't care that much about theory but they're willing to work with it, things were fine.

Since we brought in a second guitarist (who seems to be stuck in the 80's hair band era) who originally SEEMED like he would find theory important, I've found out that he's the same way, and now I no longer have any leeway or say in the way any of the songs are constructed because "I use theory" which now invalidates anything I say. Now it seems I'm just good for making vocals and mixing all the songs for the album, and I've just about had enough of it.

All I can see are the bad sides of things.

I really have loved being in this band until about a month ago when things started getting ugly.

I hate to say it, but I think adding the new guitarist destroyed the band. It wasn't that the new guitarist was bad, it's that he forced everyone in the band to look at the band's shortcomings because he was coming from such a different place.

I'm really torn up emotionally and am very sad right now. After tonight's show, this could be the end of The Mercury Rising. The joy in the band has completely left me--I'm more depressed right now than I've been in in at least 8 years.

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1089

Ah man no way! I still haven't had a chance to see you guys again. Plus you were way too good of a band just to striaght up break up. If the problem is the new guitarist, meet with everybody but him about it. See if they agree. If they do, then give him the boot. It doesn't have to be mean. Sometimes things just don't work out. You could all let him know as a band or whatever.

But don't just straight up give up on something you really like that has a lot of potential. You guys are signed, recording, and everything. WTF. Don't give up NOW. Now is when you are going to be seeing the most benefits!

Segep · Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 219

I don't know the band, and I don't know the details, but the story sounds familiar. I'll tell you what I think. The only song of yours I've ever heard is Enlightenment (dialup is a bitch). Just from that song alone I believe in you. "Rage" clone bands are a dime a dozen, but musicians who know theory tend to have longer and more creative (if less intense) careers. I think whether you stay in this band or not you have a definite future in music.

-J

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:

Thanks

The band is going great now! Once I was able to address the concerns I had, everything was GREAT! In my past, when I've been at jobs, and I get to the point I did today with the band, I usually quit the job. This is the FIRST time I've really been able to get past this kind of manic period without quitting something. This is a HUGE HUGE HUGE milestone for me!

We had a fantastic show tonight, and I was able to talk to the audience without any problems. Fantastic!

HellFinger · Joined: 01 Aug 2008 Posts: 52 Location: King Salmon, Alaska

Ok, so Kizzume knows that I went to school for music. Studied Music Theory for two years. Doesn't make me any more of a better player or composer necessarily, I just know how to better communicate ideas to other musicians familiar enough with the terms (theory).

'Yeah....I'm a great story teller, improv actor and comedian, but I don't want to use any that alphabet or grammar stuff'. That's what I think when I hear someone who is anti-theory. It could be that they misunderstand even what music theory is. It's not rules to live by, it's a language to explain what you do sonically.

When I hear anti-theory players on a rant I think 'cop out'. Someone who is looking to make excuses rather than actually advance their playing - maybe even a little insecurity there. We're not talking about knowing all the chords, modes/scales in every key and to know the circle of fifths and how to spell chords out without looking at an instrument. Just the basics of ABC 123 is enough to communicate with fellow players to pull things together faster.

Now, if someone has a great ear and a natural talent, I don't have to say 'the chorus goes from Am - G - C - Dm, I can just play an example for them or, heck some I've played with just hear it and play it before I even show them (I'm thinking of you Kiz). Now, I know that if I tell Kizzume to play those chords, he can play them out just as easily as he can hear them. C'mon. You gotta know some basics to play in a band and most players just pick it up as they go anyway even without formal lessons.

As wild sounding as his music was, you could theorize out (describe) what Stravinski did - it just wouldn't fit into any traditional molds as nicely as say Bach. Zappa had to train most of his early players because they didn't know what he was talking about when he wanted something done. Good players who had talent and he wanted to work with them, so he put in the effort to bring them up to speed and his compositions could be learned faster/more efficient.

Last night I heard a band that had some old school players. The pedal steel player picked up the guitar when a guest vocalist came up to the stage and wanted to play 'Walking After Midnight' by Patsy Cline. The bass player didn't know the song, but was able to follow the changes after a quick explanation and watching the guitar player for the changes. Sounded like they had been playing that song for years. The drummer was my bands drummer (my kit too) and he never played with these cats before, but when told what type of rhythm to play and time/tempo - he just fit right in. BTW, that drummer hadn't played for 15 years until he played with us this summer. Sounded like these guys had played for years and years. A little theory goes a long way....

Kizzume, that's really a break through too for being able to express your thoughts and not just walk away. Not always an easy thing to do but definitely goes a long way in band relations. I think that is the majority of good musicianship is being able to get along even in the face of disagreements to make the band a success. It's a team effort and each person has to play the strengths of the band, not highlight another player's perceived weakness.

Now, if some butt rocker 80's hair band fool can't break out of Motley Crue and Poison (no insult to those bands intended) enough to recognize that you have more talent in your left hand than most musicians show in an entire lifetime - he's got a few things left to learn and might be holding things back. Just my small opinion. Then again, I know what you are capable of and can usually spot a good musician in just a few measures (oops, used a theory term) of playing even the most simple piece.

Kizzume · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:41 am Post subject:

As usual, great insight on this. Smile

Thanks

What was the name of the band you heard that night?

HellFinger · Joined: 01 Aug 2008 Posts: 52 Location: King Salmon, Alaska

Baron Von Klonkentrash and His Flying Circus

Guitar/vox - Kellen. He's a float plane pilot not yet 35, I think. Mean ass blues vocals and guitar. Makes facial expressions when he plays. Top notch performer.
Pedal Steel - Stu. Older guy who looks like Dr. John a little and was prob. the best you'll hear anywhere. Told great stories of Austin City Limits.
Keys - Tom. Played since 5, Air Force band for 15 ys, makes a living in Anchorage playing music exclusively.
Bass - Dave. From England, but lives in Anchorage. Laid back and in the pocket. Steve really liked playing with this guy especially which is a great compliment. A cool cat.
Drums - Steve. TSA guy here for the season. Not played for 15+ years until he played in the Dirty Marteeny's (our summer cover band). Played with Muddy Waters at one point back in the day. Played for a living until he had a family and the need of a day job.

None of these guys practiced regularly, although the Anchorage folks knew each other - they were in different bands back home. Kellen gathered these guys up and asked Steve to play with him for the 3 days gigs. The whole thing sounded great. One person remarked that they sounded like they must practice regularly. They just laughed.

Old school blues/country/rock sound. A quality of playing and sound you don't get very often these days. No struggle for any of these guys to play. Was nice watching masters of the craft perform with an ease of skill and grace. All that in little old King Salmon, Alaska. It's been one heck of a summer for live music out here in Bristol Bay.