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| Should "in God we trust" and "under God" be removed? |
| Yes, it should be removed, it wasn't there before and shouldn't be here now. |
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40% |
[ 2 ] |
| It should be removed from our currency, not the pledge. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| It should be removed from the pledge, not our currency. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| It should not be removed even though it was added later. |
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40% |
[ 2 ] |
| I don't care! |
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20% |
[ 1 ] |
| It should not be removed because this is a Christian nation. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 5 |
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Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: Religious references in governmental things |
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To me, "in God We Trust" should not be on our currency because it wasn't originally on our currency at all until the 1890s, and then was added to even more of our currency by the time the McCarthy era came around, when everyone was fearful of communism.
To me, "under God" should never have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance. It's not appropriate to make people associate with a religion. But then again, I don't really believe we should have a pledge of allegiance--not one that we force kids to memorize anyway.
Last edited by Kizzume on Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jen
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I concur. 100% the way I see it.
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debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Don't really like any of the polling options on this one either. I'm not really big on removing it simply because I don't care... "In God We Trust" on the cash? Sure... For me it works well. "God I hope I have enough of this to pay the bills...." "One Nation Under God" Why not. I don't care about that as most people believe in a god. Majority rule with minority rights. *shrug*
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Kizzume
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I added another option, but it's probably too late. 
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debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Damn it, I posted this earlier, or at least thought I did....
I don't mean to be a prick about the polling options. I was just making an observation that my opinion wasn't really represented by the options. It wasn't trying to be accusatory or anything. I just make little smart ass remarks from time to time...
I'm sorry...
I wove wou Kizz... 
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | Damn it, I posted this earlier, or at least thought I did....
I don't mean to be a prick about the polling options. I was just making an observation that my opinion wasn't really represented by the options. It wasn't trying to be accusatory or anything. I just make little smart ass remarks from time to time...
I'm sorry...
I wove wou Kizz... |
Well, even if you would have been accusatory, it wouldn't have been out-of-line. I appreciate when I get that kind of input. 
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Meow.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 402
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, even though it wasn't added until the 1890's, why change it again? Is there some anti "Under God" agenda I need to be in on? Does it do damage to have it there? Just curious.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hackfest wrote: | | Well, even though it wasn't added until the 1890's, why change it again? Is there some anti "Under God" agenda I need to be in on? Does it do damage to have it there? Just curious. |
Because it doesn't need to be there. Yes, it does damage having it there. It sends a message to the rest of the world that our government has an official religion. It does just as much damage as AA or NA meetings that CLAIM that they're not a religious program yet have God in several parts of their literature.
Especially now when we're dealing with religious extremism from other countries--the less it looks like one religion against another, the better.
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Meow.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 402
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I for one don't care whether it's there or not. But what exactly is the official religion that is sends to the rest of the world? Where does it say that it is implicitly the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob?
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The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Hackfest wrote: | | Well, I for one don't care whether it's there or not. But what exactly is the official religion that is sends to the rest of the world? Where does it say that it is implicitly the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob? |
Because most of the other gods aren't just called "God". They'll say "Goddess", they'll say "Allah, they'll use other names than "God". I'm sure there ARE some other beliefs that are not based on the bible who call what they view as a supreme being as "God" as well, but they're not very well known. It is automatically assumed that "God" = the God of the Bible.
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debateman
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 349
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. God, in the English language, is a term that has cross religious implications. Just because YOU are from a Judeo-Christian background, and YOU understand it's meaning to be one thing through cultural socialization, DOES NOT mean that the same is true of others. I just had this conversation with a Hindi friend of mine. He is the one who has explained how we have the best separation of church and state, and that mention of a supreme power is not the same as belief or support of said power.
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Hackfest
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. This country is, believe it or not, far more "Christian" than many countries. It's our narrow viewpoint that dictates for many the automatic assumption that "God" must mean the Judeo-Christian God.
_________________
The Democratic Anthem: The American Dream is okay! Until you make $250,000. Then you're the devil.
I can always count on message boards to consistently shatter my faith in humanity.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| debateman wrote: | | I disagree. God, in the English language, is a term that has cross religious implications. Just because YOU are from a Judeo-Christian background, and YOU understand it's meaning to be one thing through cultural socialization, DOES NOT mean that the same is true of others. I just had this conversation with a Hindi friend of mine. He is the one who has explained how we have the best separation of church and state, and that mention of a supreme power is not the same as belief or support of said power. |
It has cross religious implications, as I said. If someone is being interviewed on television and happen to mention "God and his wonders", what are people going to assume? They're going to assume it's a Bible-based God, whether loosely or tightly interpreted, but Bible-based nonetheless is what people are going to ASSUME. Does it make it right? No. It does not, but it is precisely what people are going to assume, especially with people like Robertson running around decrying it as such.
It was put on the rest of our currency in the 50's, during the McCarthism period, and there's no doubt whatsoever as to where it was coming from at that point--if you weren't Christian, you could be a communist and you need to be watched carefully.
Believe me, I used to argue the same thing as you have said on this, and I KNOW that "God" CAN HAVE different implications, but I also know what mainstream media pushes, and I know that a huge percentage of the population center so much of their lives on what's coming out of their televisions. Again, does it make it right? No, but that's the way it is. People make those kinds of generalizations and stereotypes.
That is why I think it should be removed from our currency. Saying it's not religious is like AA or NA saying it's not a religious program. Sure, it can span a decent variety of religions, but it's still putting religion at the top of things. Another thing it does is it makes it seem as if MONEY is our version of God.
We've changed the money many times, why not make a sensible change and remove the element that can be misinterpreted the easiest?
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Meow.
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jq
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1089
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I want to keep it on our bills and in our pledge of allegiance.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jq wrote: | | I want to keep it on our bills and in our pledge of allegiance. |
Why do you believe so?
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Meow.
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