SB 777. Is this for real?

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: SB 777. Is this for real?

http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&resnum=0&q=%22SB+777%22+schwarzenegger&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

And here's a really nasty article about it that refers to homosexuality as a perversion:

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/schwarzenegger.html

And here's what I've been able to find as the text:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_777_bill_20070223_introduced.html

This doesn't seem right to me. This seems like Measure 9 in reverse. I'm still trying to do research as to whether what I know about it, including that link to the actual text (that I don't know if it's really the real text or not).

Is this for real?

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject:

Seriously--is this for real? This is crazy. I'm not into book bans. I'm not into thought police. Measure 9 was the anti-gay bill that didn't pass and this is the anti-anti-gay-bill. It's thought police either way.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I don't know how I feel about this honestly. I'm all for teaching both points of view, but parents do such a shitty job of raising their kids with manners and respect that there can't be any real education going on in the schools. So the teachers are stuck doing the best they can with what they've got.

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 402

Don't take this wrong, but I don't really care how bad you think a parent does at raising their kids. The choice is that parent's, at least for now. I know exactly how I feel about this. It's preposterous. My 4 year old doesn't need to be indoctrinated by someone who "has the best interest" in mind for someone they don't even know nor will ever meet. Certain morals and core beliefs should be taught at home, in the same way you shouldn't preach Christianity at a public school. In a government run program, you have to remember two things. One, it's for all people. That's why it isn't allowed to say in a public school that you can't have Christmas in the same way that you can't say you must have Christmas. Two, it's sponsored by the public, and the public is not going to accept the indoctrination of their impressionable young children, right or wrong. How a child is raised is the choice of the parent, and always will be. Here's the real kicker though. My wife teaches at a public school, I've been around hacked off parents. And when it really comes down to it, what the schools and government don't want you to know, is that if you get angry as a parent about things that involve your child, unless you're hurting someone else, you win. Teachers have to ask the parent if they can hold the failing kid back. Parents can and do override school rules at will.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I'm all about the parents taking responsibility for the teaching and what is taught, but most don't. What are we to do in that situation? Nothing? Screw the kid eh?

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1089

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

Of course I don't want the government to indoctrinate my child. As a responsible parent I will take the responsibility to teach my child my fundamental beliefs along with manners and respect for those who disagree. However, not all parents are going to take the responsibility to teach their children these things, therefore I think that it is the responsibility of the school to reinforce the standards/beliefs of society as school serves as the primary method of socialization in most cases. If the parents were to disagree with what the school is teaching they have rights. They can transfer schools, home school, or simply do as parents did in the past and teach their children values instead of giving them a cellphone and demanding that they (the parents) not be disturbed while watching tv.

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 402

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1089

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject:

I just don't think that books should be banned for those kinds of reasons. I also don't think that everyone should be made to pretend that they have a particular point of view either.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject:

I don't know--lately I've been wondering how left wing I really am.....

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 402

Can I take a shot here? I'd say that there are certain core values and beliefs that you have as an individual that you see as represented by the Left. These values are so core, that you end up coming to the logical conclusion that you must be Left. At the same time, the Right does things and has certain values that are unacceptable to you, strengthening your position that you must be Left. The problem is, that the the Left isn't what it used to be, and it's insane, and it's letting people down everywhere. Additionally, you have all kinds of people who experience "sinking ship syndrome" and are going down with the Left in flames, but it doesn't make sense for them to switch parties, because of those core beliefs. I dare conclude then, that it's not your fault that you're wondering how Left you really are, but the fault of the representation of the Left. It is destroying itself and leaving people scratching their heads who were supportive of it. The Left is transforming. It's like getting the carpet yanked out from underneath you.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject:

That sounds about right. Sad

jq · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 1089

Hackfest · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 402

There is no good party. You simply have to choose the lesser of two evils. Or move to a different country.