Smoking in public places....

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I don't care what your standard is, just don't pretend that it's anything more than selfish.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:06 am Post subject:

And I think that someone thinking that everyone wants to smell his or her cigarettes is selfish. I have an opposite view on this than you do--and I think most of it is because you smoke and I don't. I guess one would have to be a non-smoker to understand just how much this affects them. If a person smells like cigarettes all the time anyway, it's going to be one of the last things on that person's mind and would seem like a silly thing to worry about, since one already smells like an ashtray.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I spent 18 years as a non-smoker and have tried to quit twice. So I understand the mentality of a non-smoker. Sure, it would be easier for me to quit smoking if smoking were banned. Sure, there are health concerns, but that isn't the point you are making.

You want to limit cigarettes because of the smell. Knowing that it's that smell, that desire to smoke, that warm feeling running through out my body that keeps me hooked, I understand. Believe me. If I never smelled another cigarette it would make quitting easy. But that's not the case. And despite how bad I wanted to quit smoking at the time, I wouldn't, through force of law, limit the rights of an individual to partake in a legal activity.

So it's not a smoker who is defending smoking to his dying breath, ignoring the facts. It's a smoker who has tried to quit and knows that the only way in the near future he will be able to do so is the banning of smoking, but also realizing that banning smoking is an easy out. It would make MY life easier if we were to ban smoking. It would make MY life easier, but I shouldn't use that as an excuse to legislate. I shouldn't use that as my justification to limit the rights of others to partake in said activity.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:27 am Post subject:

Well, at least I know the real reason why you would prefer it get banned outright, as you know the real reason why I'd like the ventilation standard. Smile

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

I never understood people liking the smell. Doesn't it make you gag? I can't be in a room with smokers without choking. How can you even breathe it in and not go into convulsions?

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:

I wouldn't say convulsions, but I sure can't stand it.

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

And I will say again, if you have allergies, its probably because you limit your exposure to experiences that help strenghten your immune system.

http://www.medwire-news.md/48/72330/Respiratory/Smoking_linked_to_reduced_allergic_sensitization_.html

Smoking linked to reduced allergic sensitization
By David Holmes
21 January 2008
J Allergy Clin Immunol 2008; 121: 38-42

MedWire News: Parental smoking during childhood and personal cigarette smoking in teenage and early adult life lowers the risk for allergic sensitization in those with a family history of atopy, according to the results of a study from New Zealand.

Writing in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, Robert Hancox (University of Otago, Dunedin) and colleagues explain that "the findings are consistent with the hypothesis that the immune-suppressant effects of cigarette smoke protect against atopy."

Avoiding exposure to cigarette smoke is often recommended to reduce the risk for allergic sensitization, particularly for children with a family history of atopic disease, the authors explain. But evidence for an effect of smoking on allergic sensitization is mixed.

Hancox and colleagues investigated the effect of passive smoking in childhood and active smoking in adolescence and adulthood on allergic sensitization in 972 participants in the Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study, in which a prospective longitudinal population-based birth cohort was followed-up to age 32 years.

The authors obtained histories of parental atopic disease and smoking, and monitored personal smoking at multiple assessments between birth and age 32 years. Atopy was assessed by skin-prick tests (SPTs) for 11 common inhaled allergens at ages 13 and 32 years.

The team found that the children of atopic parents were less likely to have positive SPTs at 13 years if either parent smoked (odds ratio [OR]= 0.55), although the significance of the association was lost after adjusting for confounders.

Participants with atopic parents were also less likely to have positive SPTs between ages 13 and 32 years if they smoked themselves (OR=0.1 Cool

, and this reduction in risk remained significant after adjusting for confounders.

The authors write: "We found that children who were exposed to parental smoking and those who took up cigarette smoking themselves had a lower incidence of atopy to a range of common inhaled allergens.

"These associations were found only in those with a parental history of asthma or hay fever."

They conclude: "The harmful effects of cigarette smoke are well known, and there are many reasons to avoid it.

"Our findings suggest that preventing allergic sensitization is not one of them."

Mark

technocrat · Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 216

I limit exposure to pollen because it's unbearable; it always has been.

Smoking probably does many things to desensitize taste and smell and harm receptors. That's not exactly good either.
Both situations are bad. It says it's an immune suppressant. That's bad.

It also says the results are mixed and it's often recommended based on evidence to do just the opposite and not expose them to it to reduce it. Given the harm it causes, it makes no sense to expose people to smoke because in some people it seems, maybe to reduce allergeric reaction to some things.

Kizzume · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:

It's sort of like those medications that take care of a problem but has side effects that are worse than the original problem.

redstaterebel · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 128

Good discussion here.

It makes me thing about banning Cigarettes -

Why hasn't the government done so?

Since the 70's - the fed govt has placed dire warnings on every pack - basically "these will kill you"
Now with the risk of 2nd hand smoke etc - Why do you think there has been no ban?

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

Kizzume · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

Since it seems that stopping people from smoking in public places is unacceptable to smokers, a full-fledged ban might eventually be what happens. I hope not, because that would mean that it's going to be less likely that marijuana will get legalized. As long as marijuana is illegal, I'm not going to have sympathy for people who complain about not being able to smoke inside indoor public places--because AT LEAST they can smoke legally.

If those who complain the most about not being able to smoke inside were also complaining that so many other things people want to put into their bodies are illegal, I'd be all for their cause, but unfortunately, as it has been shown in this thread, many people who believe it should be legal to smoke cigarettes in public indoor places agree with the war on drugs and even in keeping marijuana illegal.

mark · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 38

Kizzume · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject:

I've already said--it's for more selfish reasons, it's because I don't like the smell AND because I lose notes in my vocal range when I'm around it for very long which can destroy a performance. The second part is an almost pseudo-health-issue...

I really struggled when I played in Idaho on Friday because of the cigarettes, but the cold that I was starting to get was the biggest culprit. I was so lucky that the cold really hit Saturday instead of Friday.

Kizzume · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:

This is meant to be an extension of my last post:

I also don't prefer the idea of BANNING it indoors unless a business can't provide a decent ventilation system. I like the ventilation standard option--this way even offices could allow smoking indoors again.