Smoking in public places....

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

Hey... you're complaining about stains. Alcohol has the ability to eat through plastic. Both are being put into the bodies of the consumer. I'd rather have something in me that stunk than have something that could eat through plastic.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject:

Well, so would I, if I was to be actually ingesting those things. Alcohol doesn't have the abililty to do anything if I'm not drinking it, I'm not splashing it, I'm not pouring it. Alcohol won't do anything.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

Alcohol, if in close proximity to fabric will over time erode it. So you have a stained shirt or a holey shirt? Eh... it's pointless to debate this issue with you. I could set here and show you how other legal products cause horrible smells or stains and are permitted inside, but you would just shift advocacy. This whole issue started out as health and now its about smell. We don't ban curry use. If it's the smell. We don't ban indoor grills (burgerking etc.) but it smells bad...

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:

Fine. You're right. I'm inconsistent. There are things I'd like to do and without the laws in place, I'm not willing to do them. I'm not willing to perform at places with smoking. This will probably eventually cause a problem with my band and I might end up losing my career over it. That's how much I hate cigarettes.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

So essentially what you are saying is that you are willing to limit another persons freedoms based upon YOUR desires and you aren't even willing to do such in a manner that is consistent or rational/reasonable. It's not cigarettes that are limiting you. It's YOUR fear/hate that is limiting you. Cigarettes are just a scape goat.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject:

Other than cigarettes being a scapegoat, which you are wrong about--you're right about everything else. You want your right to make everyone stink in public places. It's important to make people stink because it's a freedom. Roll Eyes

Our right to stink up everyone else is just SO important.

I hate cigarettes, with extreme passion. I hate the smell of them enough that I'll not go places that have them. Until the law came into place here in Washington that bars them from public places, I had kind-of given up on performing music live.

I think, considering how strongly I am against cigarettes, I'm pushing forth pretty reasonable legislation for cigarette smoking in public places--the ventilation standards, which would also allow people to smoke in offices and other places.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject:

I'm saying they should HAVE the right if there is ventilation. I don't think my rights should trump anyone else's. A ventilation standard should allow for your right to pollute inside air with smoke. If nobody has to breathe it but you, then it shouldn't matter to ANYONE.

As much as I take advantage of the fact that Washington has the laws they do, I don't think they're RIGHT.

And as much as I said when I was emotional about the band thing and ruining my career and stuff--I'll put up with it. I just wish there was some sort of spray or something I could coat my body with that's easy to wash off so it doesn't take so long to get it off my body, and I wish I knew how to breathe the right way or something to keep from losing notes when I'm around cigarettes. Quite frankly, it doesn't make sense that I lose notes from being around cigarettes, yet I don't seem to lose notes when it's 420. I'd like to see if there's any sort of research on that, and if there's anything I can do to combat it when I run into it. Otherwise, I'm just going to sound like shit whenever I play places that have smoking, and not out of being snobbish--out of my physical inability to reach some of those notes when I'm around cigarettes. Maybe it psychosomatic or something--who knows.

Anyway--I believe in the ventilation standard.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:

Imagine if kitchens didn't have ventilation at restaurants and everyone had to breathe everything that was being cooked, especially when something got burned accidentally.

Don't restaurants have a requirement to have proper ventilation? I don't know anything about that, but it would seem that they would.

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

But you are forcing the ventilation standard on the business owner. So you are still forcing others to put your rights in front of theirs.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject:

They would have a choice--have the ventilation standard with lower taxes or don't have smoking.

Would you find it unreasonable to force a ventilation standard for kitchens at restaurants?

debateman · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 349 Location: New Mexico

I find your motivation to be unreasonable.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject:

I find it unreasonable that so many smokers don't care how bad it smells up the people around them, don't care about leaving butts everywhere, don't care about their own health because they want to put that crap in their bodies, and then want people to smile and say, "Boy that smells great. I'm so glad that you smoke cigarettes. It just makes my day so much brighter when I smell like an ashtr.... I mean freshly smoked tobacco. Thank you so much!"

Quite frankly, smoking is as disgusting as chewing tobacco, the difference is, what makes it disgusting is that it smells up everyone around them.

My motivation shouldn't really matter. My motivation is most likely the SAME for most people who don't want to be around cigarettes. People SAY it's because of health reasons, but that's a convenient thing to say--once that's stripped away, the reasons that are left are the ones that I'm being blatant about. MANY people feel this way. The only reason why you can't relate is because you SMOKE cigarettes. But I smoke weed, I just want the right to be able to do it at all. You're complaining because I'm suggesting a way to allow you to smoke cigarettes without stinking up a place.

You can find my motivation unreasonable--but it is what it is. I could go into the other health problems associated with breathing smoke in general, but that's not what drives me in my feelings about this. I don't like being in the wind of a campfire, why would I like being around the smoke of cigarettes unless I smoke?

If a ventilation standard was in place, people could burn whatever the hell they wanted and not worry about it. People could burn things that ARE very unhealthy to be around and not worry.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject:

I see smokers complain about people who complain about the smell of cigarettes. I've seen message boards with whole sections dedicated to it. "They're just whiny bitchy [insert rank here]"

This isn't even talking about people that are trying to make it illegal--this is just complaining about how people say "phwew" when they walk by them.

Well, people should expect others to complain about it. People should have been complaining about it a long time ago. I hope more people complain about it until cigarettes are looked at as poorly as heroin use, which is about one of the only things harder to quit. It's an extremely stupid habit to start--especially with the fact that everyone knows they're addictive. I really don't quite frankly understand why someone would try a cigarette a second time, unless they were just seeing what a different flavor tasted like or something... there's peer pressure, which is pretty powerful indeed, and it's sad that the effect of peer pressure is so strong.

I think cigarettes SHOULD be demonized. They're a terrible drug.

Being around someone with B.O. doesn't hurt you any, but you can't come to work smelling like it, not even the slightest--but you can come in smelling like an ashtray and it's okay because you smoke. So many scenarios--people thinks to themselves "oh phwew man that reeks--oh, it's just a smoker--don't say anything".

Smokers seldom think "Man, I must really stink.", they instead think "I wish people would stop complaining about my cigarettes. They're so whiny." It's someone else's problem.

That's why it's so easy to rank on the reasoning for people not wanting to be around cigarettes. That's WHY people choose the subject of health over the real reasons, because many smokers will give them lots of names that are meant to make someone question his manhood if they give the real reasons.

Kizzume · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject:

I have moved this to deep cleansing because I feel that I may have been a bit harsh. I'm just getting into the debate--I hope none of this has been taken as a personal attack. Sad