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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2787
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| tristanrobin wrote: | This is not an issue that should ever be put to a popular vote.
This is an issue of civil rights - and we don't vote on civil rights. If we did, do you REALLY think there would be African American kids sitting next to little blonde blue eyed Sally in school? Not for a SECOND.
This is a matter which should be settled by courts - as all issues of rights are. |
I agree, but I still don't think we're quite ready for it. Maybe in 5-10 years. We're ready for civil unions right now.
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tristanrobin
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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Location: New Haven, CT USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
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I think the really sloppy way the states (including my own) have handled the civil unions is going to hasten the marriage acceptance.
There are too many companies trying to jump through loop holes to avoid honoring the civil unions as marriage rights - New Jersey in particular is having real problems. I think that the states' courts which have said that gays are entitled to full rights are going to see that separate but equal has never/will never be equal, and force marriage rights on the individual states.
We should remember that gay marriage in MA was HEAVILY opposed when it was ruled upon by the courts. However, all polls NOW show that nobody cares one iota about it. It's just the way we have to do things in this country - there are many wonderful things about Americans, but compassion for their fellow citizens is often not one of them.
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Kizzume
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Tacoma, WA USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| tristanrobin wrote: | I think the really sloppy way the states (including my own) have handled the civil unions is going to hasten the marriage acceptance.
There are too many companies trying to jump through loop holes to avoid honoring the civil unions as marriage rights - New Jersey in particular is having real problems. I think that the states' courts which have said that gays are entitled to full rights are going to see that separate but equal has never/will never be equal, and force marriage rights on the individual states.
We should remember that gay marriage in MA was HEAVILY opposed when it was ruled upon by the courts. However, all polls NOW show that nobody cares one iota about it. It's just the way we have to do things in this country - there are many wonderful things about Americans, but compassion for their fellow citizens is often not one of them. |
I definitely agree with your last statement.
I think that the whole civil unions thing will eventually prove to be exactly what you're saying--and THAT'S when it will be time to change over, but this has to happen in a lot of places before that big change happens. There has to be blatant problems before people will do something about it. That's the sad truth.
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redstaterebel
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 128
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kizzume wrote: | | tristanrobin wrote: | I think the really sloppy way the states (including my own) have handled the civil unions is going to hasten the marriage acceptance.
There are too many companies trying to jump through loop holes to avoid honoring the civil unions as marriage rights - New Jersey in particular is having real problems. I think that the states' courts which have said that gays are entitled to full rights are going to see that separate but equal has never/will never be equal, and force marriage rights on the individual states.
We should remember that gay marriage in MA was HEAVILY opposed when it was ruled upon by the courts. However, all polls NOW show that nobody cares one iota about it. It's just the way we have to do things in this country - there are many wonderful things about Americans, but compassion for their fellow citizens is often not one of them. |
I definitely agree with your last statement.
I think that the whole civil unions thing will eventually prove to be exactly what you're saying--and THAT'S when it will be time to change over, but this has to happen in a lot of places before that big change happens. There has to be blatant problems before people will do something about it. That's the sad truth. |
The religious aspect of marriage is what is holding it up in the USA. Its the term "marriage" which is entrenched in tradition and religion - hence the opposition.
This is a religious country - for good or bad - it just is. That said - the govt recognizes marriage - even authorizes it with licenses - which is the strongest argument for those in favor of same sex marriage.
I agree with Kizz - we are still a long ways off. Some states will be so dead set against it that they will enact state constitutional amends against it.
For now, I think Civil Unions is the place to start.
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Kizzume
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Exactly RSR--that is the big fear for me if this gets pushed too much--the other side may push back with just as much force or more, and amendments may be added. We must settle for civil unions at first, and be happy about the few states that have went back and forth on it. It all takes time.
I still think about what things were like in even as late as 1991--as far as gay acceptance, it's really leaps and bounds ahead of then.
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